The unforced rhythms of grace...

Postmodern thought, post Christian culture, and inter-faith dialogue.
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This forum is for Christians to dialogue about non-denominational and inter-denominational issues including various Christian doctrines, canon law, and praxis.

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To help people in open forums wrestle with the idea of faith, Brian McLaren suggests that we focus on essentials and not debate minutiae - rather than old earth versus young earth, we should wrestle with larger issues.

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Marty Farrell
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Re: The unforced rhythms of grace...

Unread postby Marty Farrell » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:08 am

Hey Dave,

By 'traditional' Christianity I mean Western. One doctrine that has done the most damage to the Gospel of Christ is that of 'original sin'. It was never accepted by the Eastern Churches nor the Celts!

During the controversy between St. Augustine and Pelagius (St. Morgan) the nature of mankind came up for consideration. Due to Augustine's Gnostic backgrounds, the 'corruption of mankind' entered into early Western theology and thought. At the Reformation, it carried over and was further enhanced by Calvin's teachings. This is still the bases for all Western Theology, Catholic and Protestant. It's the 'accepted' or 'traditional' view of mankind.

The Celts view all life as reflecting the Light of the Creator, the Source for all Life. All are 'good' because He is still within all. However, we are well aware that our nature is also totally 'selfish' and the Light is often suppressed by our own desires. We are not corrupt, merely selfish. That's more a flaw that needs correction rather than 'rotten to the core'! All the giftings that God designed as part of our nature were put there for a good purpose. The west sees them as part of our 'corruption' because they are not 'spiritual' enough! (in Gnosticism, anything physical was corrupt and degenerate!)

It is through the River of His Love (Grace) that we rekindle the Light within the people we encounter each day by living as Him in their midst. It is seeing them as He sees them, loving them as He loves! This was the main concept in the recent popular book "The Shack". God is a Loving God seeking restoration, not the Judge, Jury and Executioner of all we do.

There is more to our theology but I feel it would not fit in this thread so I'll stop here! I think this should be sufficient to give you an idea of what we hold in CC.

Slan,(bye)
Marty

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Re: The unforced rhythms of grace...

Unread postby musicmonkey » Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:09 pm

Hi Marty,

Thanks for that. I've spent a day thinking about it. So how do you define "original sin"?

Marty Farrell
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Re: The unforced rhythms of grace...

Unread postby Marty Farrell » Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:01 pm

Dia annseo isteach!
God to all here!

Hey Dave,

The term 'original sin' was an invention developed by the early Roman church. It emphasized man's 'fall from grace' due to the sin of Adam. It was seen as an 'inherited' condition of all mankind that causes a separation between mankind and His Creator. Later they also used it to place under further 'corruption' because the act of sex that caused us to come into existence was viewed as part of our corruption.

I wouldn't define it.. I don't believe in it! True, mankind is selfish and willful, but we still are an icon of our Creator. Our humanity will just never be equal to God's divinity. (Rom. 3:23) That's not corruption, just a flaw of our human nature. By today's Western understanding, there is no good thing in us until salvation in the Church!

Slan,
Marty

musicmonkey
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Re: The unforced rhythms of grace...

Unread postby musicmonkey » Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:39 pm

Selfishness is sin. Would you agree that we are born with that?

Marty Farrell
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Re: The unforced rhythms of grace...

Unread postby Marty Farrell » Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:59 pm

Hey David,

Yup! Selfishness is sin! Technically, selfishness and willfulness are the root of all other 'misdeeds'! I don't deny that we are 'sinful', I simply stay with the intended meaning of Scriptures. Its our failings due to our humanity, not corruption! To follow the Roman model, God created us half good / half bad!

Marty


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